The Mindful Marketplace with Joel Skene

Steering Investment Toward Social Change and Business Sustainability - Part 1

• Joel Skene / Drew Tulchin

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Prepare to be inspired as we join forces with Drew Tulchin, the mastermind behind the New Mexico Angels Investors Network, for a deep dive into the profound effects of local investing on both communities and the business world. We celebrate a decade of insights from Impact Alpha, while also shedding light on the darker aspects of corporate dominance in live entertainment, weighing in on the monumental lawsuit the US Department of Justice has brought against Live Nation. Our journey with Drew doesn't stop there; we honor the bold steps taken by Illinois Governor JB Pritzker to clear medical debt, a move that promises to lift many from financial despair and serve as a beacon for the kind of change that can come from mindful governance.

Unlock the potential of impact investments and business sustainability as we spotlight the National Coalition for Community Capital's role in nurturing Michigan's startup culture, and marvel at Drew's transition from Meow Wolf's CFO to leading angel investors into a future where businesses serve more than just their bottom lines. We cast a critical eye on the significance of B Corporations and their parallel to organic certification, reinforcing the need for integrity in our marketplaces. This episode isn't just about dollars and cents; it's about how we measure our true value through happiness indexes, the UN's Sustainable Development Goals, and triple-bottom-line businesses that cherish profit, people, and the planet alike. Join us on this enlightening path to discover how investment can be a powerful tool for societal evolution.

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Joel:

What if investing in each other could change the world? I'm Joel Skeen with bizradious and this is the Mindful Marketplace. Welcome, welcome to the Mindful Marketplace here on bizradious. I am your host, joel Skeen. Very grateful to have you here. Very grateful for today's show.

Joel:

I'm going to be talking today with Drew Tulchin, who is the president of the New Mexico Angels Investors Network, and we're going to be talking a lot about the growth of local investing. But if this is your first time here with us on this program, this is where we talk to the entrepreneurs, the advisors, the industry leaders, investors and economic experts, who are all questioning the assumption that there's just one bottom line in business. It's where we learn how to connect our money and our businesses to our values, our community and ourselves. So before we get in with it here with Drew today, I am going to go over the balance sheet the assets, liabilities, debts and investments All right In the assets column. Today, I first want to talk about Impact Alpha. They are celebrating their 10-year anniversary and it really is a true asset to a more mindful marketplace. Impact Alpha is essentially the Wall Street Journal for impact investing. So their about page talks about how they are made up of both trusted insiders but also skeptical outsiders, and they identify solutions worth scaling and balloons that need popping. Their audience includes asset owners, asset and fund managers, foundations, advisors, entrepreneurs and advocates. If you like this show, I'm sure you would find value in Impact Alpha, and in addition to the news, they also have several different databases of different kinds of impact investing. There's a spot for climate tech, local entrepreneurship, international investment opportunities. So happy birthday to Impact Alpha. Very congrats to you guys for 10 years of reporting on impact investing. Congrats to you guys for 10 years of reporting on impact investing. Next, in the liabilities column.

Joel:

So the US Department of Justice is planning to sue Live Nation over alleged violations of federal antitrust laws. The lawsuit will allege that Live Nation has leveraged its dominance over the live music industry and has undermined competition for ticketing. Over the live music industry and has undermined competition for ticketing. This comes after Live Nation faced criticism for its handling of Taylor Swift's Eras tour back in 2022. And since Live Nation and Ticketmaster merged back in 2010, the company has faced criticisms for exerting unfair dominance over the market for live concerts. The DOJ approved that merger at the time, but imposed a consent degree to prevent the company from abusing its position. However, these restrictions were extended after the DOJ accused Live Nation of repeatedly violating the decree. The DOJ has been investigating Live Nation for months, focusing on whether Live Nation imposed anti-competitive agreements on venues. It's also hired a veteran competition attorney to defend the company against these allegations, arguing that ticket prices were set by artists and driven up by the forces of supply and demand.

Joel:

But the entertainment industry has seen significant deregulation and monopolization since the 1990s. The merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster in 2010 has been the focal point of criticism, with allegations of the company exerting unfair dominance over the market for live concerts. The DOJ the planned lawsuit by Live Nation by the DOJ is a clear indication of the ongoing concerns about monopolistic practices in the entertainment industry. The lawsuit alleges that Live Nation leveraged its dominance for ticketing. As we've recently seen with the tech industry and with Google, the cases of Live Nation Ticketmaster raised significant concerns about fair competition and antitrust violations. This ongoing scrutiny and planned lawsuit by the Department of Justice reflect that challenge of regulating market monopolization.

Joel:

All right in the debts column, so Governor JB Pritzker of Illinois has unveiled significant initiative aimed at eliminating medical debt for a substantial number of people in the state. The governor's plan is focused on providing relief to those burdened by medical debt for a substantial number of people in the state. The governor's plan is focused on providing relief to those burdened by medical debt, with the goal of preventing financial hardship and bankruptcy resulting from health care expenses. During his budget address, governor Pritzker proposed legislation to eliminate $4 billion of medical debt for over a million people in Illinois. This demonstrates, I think, a strong commitment to addressing financial challenges associated with healthcare expenses. He emphasized the detrimental impact of medical debt on patients, often leading to damaged credit and the risk of bankruptcy in the months following hospital visits. The proposed legislation seeks to provide relief for medical debt for over 3,400 people in Illinois, addressing these challenges and providing substantial relief to a significant portion of the population burdened by medical debt. Pritzker has requested $10 million in 2025 fiscal year to relieve nearly a billion dollars of medical debt for Illinois residents. This allocation is intended to benefit about 340 individuals and plans for continued relief in subsequent years. The proposed initiative has garnered support and participation from health care institutions like Loyola Medicine, which is already committed to forgiving a substantial amount of medical debt. This proactive involvement from the health care providers underscores the collaborative effort to alleviate the burden of medical debt on individuals and families. In Illinois, ritzker's comprehensive plan to eliminate medical debt for a significant portion of the population reflects a proactive and impactful approach to addressing the financial challenges associated with healthcare expenses.

Joel:

And remember, in order to help combat the debt crisis, we here at the Mindful Marketplace are providing all of our listeners with a free, customized report on how you can best eliminate personal and business debt, based on your unique situation. So lots of families have used this report to eliminate all their debt, including mortgages, in less than nine years or less without spending any additional money. So get debt free by going to mindfulmarketplaceshowcom. And lastly, in the investments column, I want to hit on the National Coalition for Community Capital and the work they are starting in my old home state of Michigan. Nc3, or National Coalition for Community Capital, will roll out a statewide educational program in Michigan for startup businesses to pursue investment capital from their community as part of their two and a half year project through the program, nc3 says the first stage is to integrate with existing educational programs conducted by the Michigan Entrepreneurial Support Organizations. They recently held an initial collaboration meeting with organizers from across Michigan to provide valuable input on potential organizational partners and benefit Michigan entrepreneurs and communities. All right, that is the balance sheet and now we're going to get back to.

Joel:

I'm looking forward really here to introducing you all and getting to learn as much as we can here from someone who has quite an extensive background in startup investing in creating some really cool things. We had a kind of a connection, because one of my favorite things in the entire country, one of my favorite businesses, is an art business and it started in Albuquerque, new Mexico, and I love it. It's called Meow Wolf. I've gone to all three of the locations that they've had, and so I was very excited to learn it's called Meow Wolf. I've gone to all three of the locations that they've had, and so I was very excited to learn, drew, that you were one of the original. You were the original. You were the CFO of Meow Wolf when it first started. Is that right? You're?

Drew:

still muted.

Joel:

Yeah, okay.

Drew:

There we go. Yeah, I got to be first CFO. The organization had existed before me, been together for a number of years, but I got to be the first CFO as we start to formalize and become a real business and get our doors open, first in Santa Fe, then in Denver, las Vegas, now outside of Dallas and Grapevine, and soon in Houston and maybe coming to a city near where you are, your listeners.

Joel:

Yeah, I hope so. It's such a great community space In addition to being such an experience I found if you're ever in, there's one in Vegas, there's one in Dallas now Colorado and Denver and in Santa Fe, and if you're ever in any of those areas, I highly recommend checking out Meow Wolf for sure. So, Drew, give us a little background. I know that you are now the president of the New Mexico Angel Investors. Talk to us a little bit about how you got there out of all places. Was that sort of where you decided to go when you were younger and you set out on a path, or was that a path that sort of came your way?

Drew:

of came your way. Yeah, so I live in Santa Fe, new Mexico, joel, so any of your listeners who are there, fellow Zias, welcome to Drop Me a Line. Reach me at. Drew at mmangelscom and I grew up in North Carolina, so appreciation to those within Nashville and the whole Appalachian region.

Drew:

And I've been in New Mexico for 16 years, so for many that still makes me an outsider in a place that goes back many generations or even thousands of years.

Drew:

So for many, that still makes me an outsider in a place that goes back many generations or even thousands of years.

Drew:

And I've always had a passion for supporting New Mexico and making sure that it can be a good place to live for everybody and a good place for the future. And my path on AngelDum right to lead an angel group was the work that I first did with Meow Wolf, which is a company which raised we were fortunate to raise more than $100 million during my tenure, and we are a registered B Corporation, a certified B Corp right, so we are a socially responsible company and I've been motivated around business for good and impact for a long, long time. And then, from my work with this startup, meow Wolf, I then did what's called fractional exec work, where I worked as a part-time CFO for a number of startups. After Meow Wolf, there's a great company called Electric Playhouse, and then Build with Robots, and then DashLX. And from having done that kind of being on the other side of the table, so to speak, I then got asked to lead our angel network, because I'd worked with a lot of the angels over time.

Joel:

So you mentioned being a B Corp. What is it about the work that you all were doing that that, I guess, alleged you made you want to seek out that certification and also justified having that certification.

Drew:

Yeah, so do our listeners know about that, or should we start with some definitions?

Joel:

Yeah, I think it'd be good to do a brief. Just a quick overview on what that means for anyone who's new. Yeah.

Drew:

Right, okay. So imagine you're in the grocery store and you're buying some organic food, right? And you look at the packaging If it's certified organic, there's going to be a little earth on the back, and so that's the way you know that it's actually organic. Because a lot of people make claims about food. Something might be natural. What is natural made Stuff like that, and in the business world, we were faced with some of the same challenges. This has happened in forestry. This has happened in forestry. This has happened in organic food. This has happened in clothing and business.

Drew:

The question is how do you know you're a good business, right? So we've got folks like Patagonia Ben and Jerry's that are really well known and, in fact, are stronger businesses because of their community mindedness, because of their leadership, because their dedication to the environment and the earth. But if you're not one of those iconic brands, how do you show your bona fides? And so there was an effort to certify as a B corporation, a beneficial corporation, something that's good for the world. In addition, you also can register your legal certification as a B Corp. So those are two different things you could be a regular company and certified, or you can choose your legal registration as one of these B Corps and so I started a consulting firm, first in DC and then we were the first B Corp in New Mexico 15 years ago, because I really was committed around this idea of business for good. You can do well by doing good. You can use business to help community-minded efforts and nonprofits and you can make returns for people beyond just financial value creation.

Joel:

Right, and that gets to the phrase that I used at the top of the show, which is that there's more than just one bottom line, and that's actually the phrase that often gets used by social enterprises or by B Corps is there's an idea of a triple bottom line, or I've even heard the idea of the quadruple bottom line. What are those other bottom lines in your mind? I mean, we can talk about what's in the certification too, but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom lines in your mind. I mean, we can talk about what's in the certification too, but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom lines.

Drew:

Yeah. So there was the single, then they got to double right, so there was social and financial. Then we added the triple one with the environment, or what they called the three Ps people planet or what they called the three Ps people planet purpose. And I also am an adherent of the quadruple bottom line. There's some information about it If you just Google it. New Zealand, the nation of New Zealand, actually adapted it as a means to start measuring their progress towards UN development goals and then we wrote something about that. In my consulting firm, which is called Upspring Associates, we have a resources page and we did a little brief on this quadruple bottom line, or the four Ps and the fourth one. It can be spirituality, can be community, but the things that kind of cohere us as a peoples, and I think it's very valuable because ultimately I think it's what's going to make our world a better place and actually just keep our world sustainable. But I think it's really true that you can do more than just financial econometrics and equations to show why something is worthwhile.

Joel:

Right, what are those other metrics that someone can use to determine something like a? You know, it's very easy to determine a financial value, it's very easy to look at the number and say, okay, here's what it is right, very measurable. That's what's nice about it. But what are some? How, how would you measure some of those other, those other bottom lines, like you know, the environment, or like your community, the things that really make life life?

Drew:

Yeah, there's tons of ways. It's just that there aren't as much social scientists who have studied it. So that's where the arguments come about. But some people might have heard of the index of happiness right, which is the idea that some of our smaller countries are happier than, say, americans or others in another way to look at value or well-being, and so that's a fun thing to look at If you're a propeller head like me, really like data and statistics. There's something called the GIN, g-i-i-n, the GIN, and that's been kind of a central repository in a membership organization to have measurement mechanisms.

Drew:

The UN, with its sustainable development goals, sdgs, has created a number of ways to have rubrics or mechanisms, of ways to measure stuff towards their goals, such as are kids in school or girls in school? Do people have access to water? Is it safe and clean? Do they have roofs over their head? So these are things that you can count and from counting them you can place some sort of value on them. Things that are closer to the American consciousness is. I just read an article about West Virginia right and coal country. But you can actually look at the cancer rates, you can look at the air quality and these are things that are pretty easy to measure and you can't argue about it. Right, the cancer rates are or they aren't. Now you can argue about why those cancer rates are and who's to blame or how it came about, but you can't argue with the fact that West Virginians are dying 15 years on average earlier than most of America due to air quality, cancers, poverty and other health implications.

Joel:

Yeah, it reminds me we actually got to meet for the audience. Drew and I got to meet at a really fantastic conference called Neighborhood Economics, and one of the speakers at that conference I remember talked about showed a map of the city we were in, which is San Antonio, and showed different neighborhoods on that map and in different neighborhoods, the rates of all different kinds of diseases were different, based on a variety of factors. You know income, housing, access to healthcare, access to you know community services, access to greenery and nature, but one thing that I took away from that was really stunning was that you know your zip code determines your longevity and your health and life, more so even than your DNA code. I was curious if there's anything from that conference that you really that really spoke to you or you really took away from in regards to the work that you guys are doing.

Drew:

Yeah. So Neighborhood Economics a shout out to Kevin Jones and the people who are organizing that. My understanding, after being in Mississippi last year, san Antonio, this year, they're coming to Asheville and then they'll be in other places. And what really inspired me about that group, joel, is the idea of faith-based efforts and that's not new, right, I mean the apartheid movements and some of our earliest ESG and faith and emotional or models-based or values-based investing was from a faith-based community. Right, and it makes sense. Right, you should invest that is in alignment with your beliefs and you don't have to be radical.

Drew:

I'm Jewish, I was raised Jewish, I think I'm culturally Jewish, but also the cultural sides of things, whether I'm Native American or whether I'm Jewish, christian, buddhist, whatever it is. I think there's a lot of things we can agree upon and so can't we invest in ways that we feel good about with our retirement or other means to be able to see a better community, see a better local neighborhood and be able to earn a return? And I think that the conversation around that, with so many thoughtful people nationwide that all had the same thinking, is very powerful, and I don't think in America we're encouraged to have these conversations, right, it's rare, at least in my circles. And so for the listeners to explicitly go out and do a salon style right, have a dinner where you specifically talk about with your friends, with your family, what's your goal around philanthropy, what's your goal around investing what's important to you and then, with that shared experience, then can you share opportunities of specifics that you might be able to actually action these theories and ideas.

Joel:

Yeah, it's like if you take the same idea of a triple bottom line business that says, hey, I want to make money in my business, but I also want to serve a social good with that money or with the service that we're providing in the process, it seems like a natural transition from having triple bottom line businesses to triple bottom line investing, because businesses often take both. They both take an entrepreneur and someone who's going to do the work and have the idea, and they also take capital that's going to back that. And so in part two of this conversation we're going to really dive deeper into that side of things, into the triple bottom line half of the investing, half of triple bottom line business, I should say. And so I'm really looking forward to get to dive in with Drew on that here and talk more about what they're doing with New Mexico Angels and what it looks like to expand local and impact investing away from a place where just a few people are doing it towards a place where it's something common, where we can all do it and it's something we can all get involved in. So make sure to listen to that next week.

Joel:

Here on Biz Radio US, you can also listen to all of the back episodes, obviously on the site, but also on on the site, but also on Spotify, itunes, iheartradio, youtube. Now we're up on video on YouTube, so subscribe to us there and make sure to tune back in next time for part two of my conversation with Drew Tulchian. And until next time, remember we are each other.